Ogden Area Community Action Agency/CSBG
3159 Grant Avenue
Ogden, UT 84401

On November 5, 1998, a public hearing for the community was held at the Ogden Area Community Action Agency. About 150 people attended. The following is a summary of the themes discussed at the hearing.

Task Force Committee members present:
Daniel Becker
Chris Martinez
Jesse Soriano
Judge W. Brent West
Jeanetta Williams

Sub-Committee members present:
Paula Carr, Courts Committee
Joe Derring, Client Committee
Edward Lewis, Representation Committee

Staff: Interpreter:
Jennifer Yim (Director)
Rosalinda Alvarez

Facilitator:
AnnaJane Arroyo
 

Issues discussed:

LACK OF REPRESENTATION IN JUVENILE SYSTEM.

Perception: Juveniles are not receiving their rights to fair representation.

Female Participant (Stephanie Carter):
"I'm Stephanie Carter of the Youth Parole Authority. I am not here in that capacity. I am not here on behalf of the Division of Youth Corrections. I've been with the juvenile justice system for 27 years. My concern is that when we all start talking about the disproportionate number of minorities that are addressed in the criminal justice system, you need to start at the juvenile level. I'm especially concerned with the number of juveniles that get incarcerated that are good kids, that are put in the system that have a depravation of their constitutional rights, that they are not automatically accorded an attorney as they would be if they were adults going to prison. I'm very concerned because now as the juvenile court has this point system or matrix. But the numbers will tell you that the juvenile court now has to consider secure care or incarceration for that youth. I mean, every kid at that point should deserve an attorney regardless of their family's money. It's what they have at stake as an individual. Without doing that, you're going to penetrate those kids into the system. Statutorily, it's already there, under the 'Original Jurisdiction Law.' Any kid who's gone to secure care after the age of 16, [who] commits a felony is automatically in the adult system with no further address by the juvenile system. Those kids don't have attorneys when they go into secure care. They're sitting ducks when they come out. And unfortunately, the same kids that can't afford attorneys when they go into secure care are, unfortunately, kids of color."

Female Participant (AnnaJane Arroyo):
"You need to take a really hard look at the juvenile court and the Youth Corrections systems. We have young people in there that are scared. Where are our guardian ad litems that are supposed to inform our children of their rights? They are not there. We would like to ask the Task Force to take a look at some immediate action that won't cost a lot. It doesn't require a lot of research and statistics. We need some immediate action because this is getting out of hand."

Female Participant:
"My experience is specifically with the juvenile court system. I had an arraignment that I went to with my son under Judge Andrus' court. Prior to this arraignment, I had applied for a public defender for my son, who is currently under state custody. I was denied a public defender. I was told that because of my income I was not eligible for a public defender. At the arraignment, I requested from the judge if I could appeal it. When I asked, if I could appeal it, I meant in writing and I wanted to do that privately, the way I had done it initially. He questioned me in open court and made me list very specific things about my personal financial situation. In my opinion he was condescending and he was preachy, and basically everything that I presented to him could not convince him to reconsider my application for a public defender. He asked what types of medication I take, what types of medical expenses I had incurred, what types of credit expenses I had incurred. The whole experience was extremely humiliating, because I had to list in open court these very private things. After this experience he still denied me a public defender. I was counseled to get ahold of the video tape, because it [shows] how he treated me.

When I went to get the tape I was forced to write why I wanted the tape. Actually it was an attorney who was able to get me the tape, because they weren't going to give me the tape. I questioned them why. The clerk told me that I needed to do this in writing and be specific about why because the judge is the boss and the judge needs to know everything. I reviewed the tape and I think it is something you should listen to in private, because its tells how he was condescending and judgmental. As far as I'm concerned, he was telling me that I was a liar and he was trying to fish for assets that I don't have. I don't feel that it was appropriate in open court. I was still denied a public defender. My son has to go to court on the 9th, and I still don't have an attorney."
 

RECOMMENDATION:

Male Participant (Michael Martinez):
"It appears that in this case there's some confusion of who is needing that attorney, not the parent, but the child. It may not have been presented correctly to [Presiding] Judge Wilkins, and that may be the issue here. There are two defenders in the system, one for the parents and one for the child. I imagine if some one would contact Judge Andrus and make that clear, that he would reconsider his decision."
 

HARASSMENT AND HUMILIATION IN JAILS & PRISONS

Perception: Prisoners are being held under inhumane conditions.

Female Participant (Yvonne Duran):
"The public defender said nothing in my defense. [Yet] I'm still obligated to pay for him. I was in Farmington jail. They are given money to house us [yet, circumstances] are unbearable. They want us to come out and be human beings, but they treat us less than animals. They offer no programs or any kind of rehabilitation. I have no paperwork from anybody; not the lawyer; not the clerk; not anybody. I don't know what my fine is exactly. There was a lady there from Mexico. She's working for, I think, Channel 4. She was working on getting her papers for a year. They arrested her. She's been there for two years. Immigration hasn't talked to her. She doesn't know what's going on. And she has sat in Farmington jail not knowing what she's doing, where she's going. They won't give her any answers or tell her anything."

Caucasian Female Participant (Sherry Holmes):
"I've witnessed situations in Weber County Jail, particularly to minority people [that] are belittled, laughed at and mistreated. I have no faith in the legal system."

Female Participant (AnnaJane Arroyo):
"At the state prison right now in the Promontory area, they are being frozen, they're cold, they have the temperatures down on purpose. They are not feeding them. They are being told that if they write to the ACLU they're going to be in a lot of trouble. They are told that they cannot take phone calls from their families. If they are sick, they're not being provided the services they need."

Female Participant (Connie Flores):
"My son got arrested by five police officers, and all five beat the hell out of him. They beat him so bad that they broke his knee and they broke his jaw and they busted his ear drum. They took him to the hospital and had to do emergency surgery. After they released him from the hospital, they put him back in the ambulance. While en route from the hospital to the jail, the officer riding with him in the back, beat the hell on him again with his night stick. When he got to jail, they refused to give him his medication for his pain. They wouldn't let him walk on his crutches. While in prison, he was bitten by an inmate with hepatitis. They wouldn't give him medical treatment up there until I called and told them I was doing to file a civil lawsuit against them. Today my son has tuberculosis because of another bite and they did not do anything to help him. When Judge Taylor sentenced my son to prison, he really literally laughed at him and called him a 'spic' and the jailers there called him a 'wetback' and told him he was nothing but another statistic. They have no right to treat our kids like that."

LAW ENFORCEMENT ABUSE & HARASSMENT
Perception: Hispanic women are assumed to be "criminals" and are therefore harassedand abused simply because they "fit the description."

Hispanic Female Participant:
"In May, I was arrested for something that I did not do, and I sat in the holding cell for six hours explaining to the people that it wasn't me. They obviously had the wrong person. The address was wrong, my social security number was not on there. They told me my bail was $672, cash only. So I was making calls to my family, trying to get them to get the money together. I was nursing my baby and they wouldn't let her come in. My baby was allergic to all of the formulas. She went 22 hours without eating. She lost weight. My sister showed up at the jail at 3:00 in the morning with the baby and a note from the doctors, and they would not let her in through the doors. I had to go through the humiliation the following day of being shackled and going in front of the judge. Finally, they let her come down to feed, once we told them that we were going to involve the press. The jailer that went and sat down with me finally listened to what I was saying, the story that I was home, that it wasn't me, that at the time I was pregnant. It was intoxication and assault charge. She decided to go look up the original arrest, mugshot, and when she seen that she realized that it was not me. That's all they had to do was listen to me the night. It was Sunday night and they only had three other people in there besides me. I honestly think that the city that originally sent out the arrest warrant should have investigated it better. When she got arrested under my name, they should have check the fingerprints. They never bothered to do any of that, because the warrant would never have been issued under my name."
 

Female Participant (Christine Graham):

"I'm an employee here at Ogden Area Community Action. I was pulled over and the [officer] didn't tell me why he pulled me over. He asked for my license, my registration, and my insurance card. I gave it all to him. He went back to his car. He was there for a little bit, came out and walked around the front of my car. Then he said, 'I pulled you over because you don't have a plate on the front of your car. Is there any reason for that?' I said, 'Well, my car was repaired and it just never got put back on.' Then he told me, 'Why weren't you wearing your seatbelt?' I told him, ' I was. I always wear my seatbelt. I just popped it off because I pulled into the driveway.' Then he said, 'Okay' and walked off. Another Highway Patrolman came, and he said, 'You're under arrest.' 'For What?' I asked. 'You're under arrest for theft.' And I said, 'This is a mistake. It isn't me.' He said, 'Put your purse down. You're under arrest for theft.' I said [again], 'This is a mistake. You've got to let me call my dad or somebody, because this isn't happening to me.' I was just really shocked. The other highway patrol man came over and asked for my Social Security card, so I gave it to him. He went and came back and said, 'It's not her.' And he said, 'There is somebody who has your exact name, exact birth date, exact description, who is wanted for theft. 'You need to get this straightened out because you're lucky I didn't take you to jail, because next time you get pulled over you are going to jail.' So I filed a complaint with the Highway Patrol office, and I was told, 'It's his word against yours, and we're going to take his word."
 

Perception: Law enforcement officers target minorities and abuse their power.

Mexican Female Participant (Gracie):
"Officer Lucero went up to my kid and twisted his arm. He ran to [me]. Then he accused me of contributing to a minor. He pushed me out of the way and twisted my son's hand. The rest of the family came out to see what was going on. By that time he had his hand way up to almost his neck. He called the whole police force to Adams street. I called for a tape, a record or something because he called it a 'riot.' He said, 'And these Mexicans are out of control.' As far as I know, he's a Mexican himself. I understand their job but [not] to come in there and to harass us that way."

Mexican Male Participant (Felipe):
"I think my boys are being harassed my Detective Lucero. One of my boys has a low-rider. So I guess if you've got a low-rider you're automatically a gang member. That's what the officer states, every time he seen them with the roll bar or something, they get pulled over for nothing,"

Female Participant:
"I was walking into Macey's, I see a white man on a bike and the police stop and went in there. A security guard pushes me from behind and says it for my protection. I tell him, 'You don't have to push my kids, nor me.' The policeman wanted to talk to me; I told him I didn't feel like talking. Customer Service told me they wouldn't serve me because I was not cooperating with the South Ogden police. I said, 'Man, if you all had a rope right now I think you would just go ahead and hang me right now. When I came here to Utah I didn't think I was going to go back 20 years.' They told me to leave. The man had a stick in his hands, waving the stick, hitting like this, 'Get the hell out of here, you prick!' I wanted to cry so bad. I told them, 'You are nothing but racist pigs."

Female Participant: (Charlotte Cahn):
"I'm here tonight to speak about a bi-racial grandson I'm raising. The white boys [in the neighborhood] all ganged up on him, about 20 of them, drug him through the street, run over him with bicycles. I called the police department. They were too busy. The law, they did not want to help this child. He sat there on the couch begging the officer, 'Please help me. These people hurt me.' I told the cop, 'You're a racist.'

Female Participant (Mrs. Salto):
"We had an incident of where something happened about two weeks ago, a shooting. My concern is that there was two detective at Ogden High School questioning my son about it. He refused to talk about it because he wasn't there. They had proof where he was at the moment. The two officers harassed him and told him how easy it would be for them to plant drugs on him and get him to go to jail. Two gang detectives: One is [named] Medford, I didn't write the other down."

Vision Impaired Female Participant:
"Being a minority is bad, but being disabled is even worse. The police came into my apartment. They knocked in my door. I asked the commander in chief who was that officer. He couldn't understand why I wanted to put in a complaint. Later I found out the reason they were in my apartment was that they had the wrong apartment. But I didn't get no apology or anything."

Female Participant: (Veronica Betalcoeur):
"In 1995 my house was surrounded by Ogden Police Department, maybe 30 or 40 officers. My husband was pulled out of our house with a gun to his head. My mom was passed out next door, lived right next door. My little brothers were hyperventilated and passed out also. They didn't know what was going on. There was a misunderstanding of addresses. There are a lot of stories like that around here. They are not doing their jobs the way they should. They're supposed to protect and serve us as human beings, as people."
 

Female Participant (Tina Heath):
"I have a multi-cultural family. I'm white. Its sad to be driving in the same car and get stopped by officers that say, 'Why you're a n-i-g--' It's very offensive. I don't like those words. It's sad to watch, to have people put in jail, 'Well, he's nothing but a gangbanger.' If we don't work together with these teenagers coming up, where is everybody's future going to be? We need to give them the help that they deserve."

Female Participant:
"I got a phone call that my daughter had gotten stopped for a DUI. The officer got her out and searched her. And she said, 'You're supposed to have a women officer search me.' Well, they harassed her for that. And she was crying when I got there. She told me, 'He was feeling me up, Mom. Don't let him.' And I couldn't do nothing. He wouldn't let me. He asked me for my license. He said was holding it and that I could go pick it up down at the police office. So he took my license. I never got my license from him. I went down there, I didn't get it. I had to go through the whole [application] thing again."

Male Participant (Michael Martinez):
"At the request of Percy Luna and his family, I'm going to speak on their behalf. You've probably read about it in the Odgen Standard. The bailiff had an altercation with some people in a four-by-four, and they were swearing at each other going down the highway. Mr. Luna observed it, and like most youth, stuck his nose where it shouldn't be, and followed them, hoping to see a fight. The other car got a way. Mr Luna turned to leave also. The bailiff was unable to catch the four-by-four and followed Mr. Luna. The bailiff accosted Mr. Luna in the street, pulled him out of the car, kicked him in the stomach, twisted his arm, knocked him to the ground, broke his glasses, and left him there. I personally called the city attorney when I read about this case, because I didn't think it was fair, and the response I got right from the city attorney was, well, they just weren't going to prosecute. As far as we know, nothing's happened to the court bailiff."
 

Perception: Law enforcement goes by a double standard with respect to those who fit the category of a non-minority.

Male Participant (Richard Griego):
My comment is coming from a different perspective. I have a nephew, and he is half Hispanic but he's got blonde hair, blue eyes, white skin. I don't believe he could fight his way into jail. He cannot go to jail. He steals, he does drugs, he's attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon. I've called spoken to several police departments and tried to get him arrested. They said, 'Were not interested. Leave us alone. The jails are full. We don't care.' I want to know why there's that double standard, when you've got a little blonde hair, blue eyes. And yet everybody else goes to jail for spitting on the sidewalk or something. There's something really wrong."

[A question and answer period following this statement included the participant's comment that his nephew's last name is "Bailey," a non-Hispanic surname.]
 

DISCRIMINATION FROM JUDGES
Perception: The potential misconduct of a judge is seen as violation of the right to an impartial jury.

Female Participant (Lorraine Cordia):
"The jury had to go out and make a decision on what was supposed to be said, if I was guilty or not. Well, while the jury was out, this judge, supposedly no one is supposed to go in the room with the jury. This judge, he, himself, went in the room with the jury to help the jury make the decision."
 

Perception: Inequality in sentencing in the legal system is a result of the prejudicial biases against minorities.

Male Participant (Jesse Garcia):
"I sit on the Odgen City Council. I also work for the Weber Human Services. I received a young man who got his first time DUI in Tooele, .04 BAC [Blood Alcohol Content]. How can they prove impairment at .04? This man was told by the public defender to plead guilty so [he] could go to work the next day. This individual was given $2,000 fine, was give 240 community service hours, and six weekends in jail. In a small city south of us, an individual went to court with five counts of DUI. This gentleman was Anglo and he was fined $250-$300 and 32 community hours. Where's the equality in the justice system?

Male Participant (Michael Martinez):
"The judges look at the people who don't have a lot of money and they make assumptions. What happened was the testimony of the insurance adjuster was that their car had 92,000 miles on their Toyota. The judge found that that couldn't of be right because they had an old car, it must have had 192,000. So in his opinion it had 192,000. So in his opinion he put it as 192,000 miles on it, and gave them $900 for the [car]. That's what he said was their loss. They appealed it. The appeals court said, 'We agree that the trial court was clearly erroneous finding the age of the car was 192,000 miles. This finding has no basis in evidence.' But what they said to the Castillo's was, 'Even though we find that it had 100,000 miles less, this still is an older car, so we're not going to give you any more for it. It doesn't matter if your car had 92,000 or 192,000 it still only worth $ 900.' Now, that seems to defy all logic. Are the judges logical in this situation, or do they assume, because the Castillo's had an old car, that somehow it was worth less to them so it would be worth something to someone else? Because $900 to a judge or to an attorney or to the people of this panel may not be much, but to the Castillo's at the time it was quite a bit, and it was the loss of their only car."

African American Male Participant (Mr. Harper):
"I 've had two trials, small claims, [that] I appealed. I am really intending to carry this as far as I can. The judge in the first trial said, 'I don't know what Mr. Harper was talking about.' I told the judge, 'All you've got to do is read the police report [re: automobile accident].' He said he did not want to read it. When I asked why, he said, ' I don't have to.' The judge also stated the guy had spent $500 of money out of his pocket, and he wanted me to reimburse him. I asked him did he have a receipt, and before he could answer, the judge said, 'He don't need one.' So I carried this all the way down through the Judicial Conduct Commission. I've given a statement, and we haven't gotten any answer from them yet."

Male Participant (Manuel Gonzalez):
"I was assaulted by four individuals back in 1977. It would be considered hate crime nowadays. As of late, I was accused of a domestic assault, which I went to court and represented myself. The judge found me not guilty due to the testimony of the individual I supposedly assaulted. And he said, 'I have no doubt and feeling in my heart, and my gut instincts tell me that Mr. Gonzalez coerced you to change your story but under the circumstances and your testimony, I find you not guilty.' That's fine but now she's facing charges for filling a false police report. She suffers from seizures. The police didn't want to check anything as far as her mental state. We even went to [the judge's] office, and he actually sat with his feet up on the desk talking out of the side of his mouth to my companion, showing no respect for her as a woman. And he said, 'Well, one of you is going down. You change your story, I'm going to burn you.' This has been something that has been going on for a long time, especially with Judge Lyons, and the way he presented himself in the court room the other day was completely and totally unprofessional."

LACK OF FAIR REPRESENTATION
Perception: The court system discriminates against minorities.

Male Participant (Mr. Garcia):
"I have been incarcerated from September 1st 1998 to October 30th in Weber County jail. My only crime is for kicking an inanimate object, my own TV, which we watch today. My plea is for myself, for my family, and for the taxpayers. My rights to a fair and speedy trial was all that I was asking for. The injustice came with the unorganized judicial system, red tape I was caught in, and the biased opinions and racism. I was given the [run-around] from South Ogden court to Ogden and back to South Ogden court. I stood before Judge Heffernan and she said I had to go to AP&P. Finally I stood before Judge Heffernan, she gave me fines and fees which I had to pay back. One was $250 for a public defender, which I did not have. I represented myself. I have documents stating that. I don't feel it is fair, being that I have to pay for something that I did not receive."

Female Participant: (Virginia):
"Our nonprofit has received a lot of cases with juvenile that because they're Hispanic they are treated unfairly. Right now we're working with three other Hispanic cases, and we're seeing that there is a lot of discrimination with the attorneys but especially public defenders. What we are concerned about is can they let this attorney go and retain another attorney, and if that's the case; can they get their money back? The attorney did not do his services as he should have."

Recommendation:
Jeanetta Williams:
"If you feel that the attorney didn't do what they were supposed to do, there's one recommendation, and that would be to contact the Bar, the Utah State Bar."
 

DISCRIMINATION IN THE WORK PLACE
Perception: Racial discrimination exists among court employees.

Female Participant (Stella):
"I was promoted to the chief deputy clerk in the Second District Court. A Native American individual walked into the file room, and a Caucasian individual alluded to the fact that she was a looking for her liquor and was drunken Indian, and so forth. She was not directly under my supervision at the time. I was the supervisor of the individual that made those comments and I called him into my office. His comment to me was 'I didn't know it was wrong.' Six months later, this individual was under my supervision and in addition the Native American individual was as well. In a staff meeting he alluded to it again. I was furious and put a written reprimand in this individual's file. And Mr. Becker, I will address this specifically to you, because I think that the management operation of the judicial system, we need to be aware of these things that are happening, to step in and do something because its wrong. It is according to the personnel and policies and procedures."

Perception: Court employees witness discrimination in the criminal justice system.

Female Participant (Susan):
"I've worked for the Second District Court for 23 years. I've seen a lot of discriminating with women, minorities, religion. Utah hasn't gone back 20 years, we've gone back 30. Our law enforcement, they are just new law enforcement, but they're still just as mean. You can't make a complaint because they are not going hear you, and you know that. I've seen it with the parole board, the prison, the judiciary, and I've seen it with the AP&P."

Female Participant (Virginia Carlson):
"I've been working with the courts since 1979. I have experiences with my color of skin and hair. I've wanted to learn and move on to different departments. I've worked in every department there is, yet I'm considered a trouble maker [compared] to another worker whose stayed in the one position her whole life. She's been given incentive awards and better treatment. I've known I'm one of the best workers there is, but I've noticed they've always treated me different with that."

African American Female Participant (Linda):
"I came to Utah, to the Hill Air Force Base. I was in command of an office. I have experienced discrimination. What I'm looking for is I need someone in the community to get some help, because I've tried every route in the military. I tried to believe in the system, but there's lot of minorities in the military who are scared to take it up the channels because of retaliation."

LACK OF REPRESENTATION IN THE LEGAL SYSTEM

Male Participant (Michael Martinez):
"There are no minorities in the clerk's office, or as prosecutors. There are people who don't speak a second language. They become frustrated when they're asked for information. There are clerks that believe that it's their right to deny you public information. There are interpreters in the First and Second Districts that are not certified and haven't taken and passed the test. I've run into interpreters who blatantly take the side of the law enforcement when they're interpreting. Part of the [problem] is because we do not have minorities working in our court system, period. It's based on stereotype, on the fact there is a fear that once you hire one you'll have to hire others. Until you fully integrate the system, until this committee decides that they're going to be part of that solution, then we're going to have this bifurcation and polarization in the community."

Female Participant: (Ms. Arroyo):
"We talked about hiring problems with the courts, and I'm talking about Ogden. Bilingual information for those that get arrested and taken to court are not provided. It is coming to our attention that they are not given that information in Spanish. A lot of times you will find individuals that are illiterate in Spanish or English, and their rights not being read or explained to them. With the interpreters of the court, LDS missionaries come back and they take precedence over any of our Latinos that are clearly qualified to be interpreters in the court. The [return] missionaries get the jobs as interpreters and they're not necessarily licensed or qualified. The very important part of interpreting is to know the slang. Most missionaries are taught Spanish but not the slang."